Episode Transcript
[00:00:04] Speaker A: Getting back to our origin of we the People.
Tackling current issues, both political and legal, with common sense.
As we the People, we must bring common sense back to make our lives better.
Only on NOW Media tv.
[00:00:23] Speaker B: Welcome back to we the People. I am your host, Alina Gonzalez Dachry. Tonight, Venezuela is at a historic crossroads. Nicolas Maduro is out and millions of Venezuelans are celebrating still.
But history tells us something important.
Removing a dictator is a moment. Dismantling a system, especially one as corrupt as the Chavez Maduro regime, is the real test.
My guest tonight led that system from the inside.
Jose Pereira is a former CEO of Citgo and one of the Citgo six American executives who were wrongfully imprisoned by the Maduro regime for five years.
His story isn't just personal. It's a window into how power, fear and political imprisonment were used as tools of control in Venezuela. And it helps us understand what must change and what cannot be ignored if Venezuela is truly going to be free.
Jose, before we talk about Maduro's removal, first of all, thank you so much for joining me on my show.
[00:01:37] Speaker C: Thank you for having me.
[00:01:40] Speaker B: Of course. I want to ground this in reality for our viewers. For years the world debated Venezuela in abstraction, sanctions, socialism, oil. But you experienced the regime in the most concrete way possible.
Not only as one, as not a partner, but someone who was in a role in promoting and help and being a good position for Venezuela and then the worst, a political prisoner. So let's start there.
Can you tell us what was it like as your role as an executive with Citgo prior to your wrongful imprisonment?
[00:02:19] Speaker C: Yeah. Thank you for having me here. Alina, for your audience. I started my career in 1985 in Venezuela in the oil and gas industry in that is the antecessor of Pedevesa.
That was during the time that has been nationalized the oil and gas. So I started in that time and began to work all my career during more than 20 years in Venezuela. After I was transferred to work here in the US based Venezuelan company that is Cirgo Petroleum. Many people don't know that Cirgo belongs to Venezuela, to the Pedevesa is the owner of Cirgo. At Cirgo, the people maybe know has more than 6,000 gas stations here in the U.S.
three big refineries, almost 1 million barrels per day capacity of producing gasoline and diesel. And it's one of the six biggest.
[00:03:19] Speaker D: Refineries here in the U.S.
so I.
[00:03:22] Speaker C: Came here as not as a normal immigrant, I came as an expat executive.
[00:03:28] Speaker D: Assigned to Citigo and at the end.
[00:03:30] Speaker C: Of my career, I became the president of the company.
[00:03:32] Speaker D: In 2017, I became the president of the company.
That was my career in the oil and gas.
[00:03:41] Speaker B: And then I guess there was just such an amazing turn of events. And I know that Maduro, obviously, he, in many ways seems like he was worse than the predecessor in what he did in nationalized, finishing the nationalization of the oil refineries. But it's my understanding you, along with five of the Citgo executives, were invited back to Venezuela for meetings.
And then the worst happened. You were taken.
I mean, you were taken as hostages, political prisoners in a game of geopolitical chess against the U.S.
tell us more about that. Like what was the purpose of your imprisonment?
[00:04:25] Speaker C: Yeah, that's a very good question. As I said, In 2017, I became the president of the company.
And by that time, Trump was in office in his.
And he was trying to throw out Maduro. He really understood that Maduro was a threat, but he was trying to do it from the diplomacy side and with sanctions, economic sanctions, this type of pressure that by that time his advisor had told him that that way he would be thrown from the government. That was not true. That was not going to happen that way. But anyhow, they was having all these issues between the two countries. And I was here in the US in Houston as president of Single, and I didn't feel well, what was going. And I told my wife that I was ready to get retired.
So I flew to Venezuela to talk with my boss and ask him to accept my retirement.
Now, in October 2017, accepting my retire, I was in retirement mode.
One month after I was in a movie with my wife and I received a phone call that I had to go to make a presentation in Venezuela next day. I didn't see nothing wrong because for me that was really normal core of business. We were revamping a refinery in Aruba. By that time, they asked us to go and make the presentation of the status, the revamping of the refinery.
I pick up my five vice president that were involved in that process and the six of us flew to Venezuela to make the presentation. The funny thing is that I did the presentation. It was a crowd of around 1,000 people in the Pedevesa offices, standing ovation. Everybody was cheering. What a way to finalize my career because I was ready to get retired. And when I was stepping out to go to the plane to fly back to here, the US to start my new life, it came that more than 20 guards of the DSM and they took me and my five colleagues. We were accused to be American spies. We were thrown in the dungeon for the next five years.
Yeah.
[00:06:40] Speaker B: Oh, my God. And what were the conditions? I mean, I. It's my understanding you were in probably the worst of. Of any type of prison that possibly exists in Venezuela.
[00:06:54] Speaker C: I stayed in the two. Not only one in the two, because Venezuela has two big dungeons. One is the military dungeon that is called Boleita, and the civil dungeon that is called Elicoide. I stayed two years and a half in Boleita and two years and a half in Ellicoide.
I'm gonna show you here my book that people can see.
This is the Elikoide. What you see here is the Elicoide. And these are the guards of the Dehecene. So I tried to put. Because I was in the Sevin and in the Dehesin. Sevin is the name of the Elikoide. De He Sing is the name of Boleta. I can tell you that was like literally living in hell.
[00:07:47] Speaker B: And I think that's what something. Maybe especially those of us that have had the privilege of being born in a country such as this, as the United States, that it's unfathomable to us that someone would be charged wrongfully and thrown into a dungeon where you have no light, no food, I mean, restricted everything. And how did you survive? I mean, the sheer willpower seems unimaginable.
[00:08:19] Speaker C: Alina. My first year, I was in a solitary confinement first, so we were separated at 6. I stayed one year in a place called Submarine.
It was like a vessel without no windows, that door locked 24, seven, that lights turn on.
We didn't have fresh air, we didn't have running water, we didn't have food. I was starving. I lost 100 pounds. I went to a lot of severe illness.
How I survived, only God can make that.
[00:08:56] Speaker D: Honestly. Honestly, Only God.
[00:08:58] Speaker C: Only God. And, and. And the support of my family, of course.
[00:09:03] Speaker B: Yeah, but I mean, it's. Yes, it's absolutely a miracle. I mean, to be in that solitary confinement. And. And not just the physical stress that you endured, but also the mental, psychological, emotional.
That's torture. I mean, and that's a testament to your willpower because, yes, with the love of your wife and family, that's your willpower that got you through that as well.
[00:09:29] Speaker C: And let me put a little more sauce in this. We were not only going through that situation is that in the middle, in the night, we heard the screaming of the tortures.
We saw the guard with the hands full of Blood.
We saw them.
So we heard the screamings in the middle of the night.
[00:09:54] Speaker B: And that's reminiscent of the stories of like my parents, as you, you know, and my audience may remember, recall, my parents are Cuban refugees and we had many friends, their friends that were political prisoners. And they discussed that the very tortures they experienced themselves, but also witnessed, and my father still remembers to this day, the gunshots, ringing, hearing of people being assassinated, people being beaten.
And he was just briefly in the military prison. I can't even imagine five years worth of that type of just even the audible torture that you six were able to endure.
Now, how is it that you were able to obtain your freedom?
[00:10:45] Speaker C: Well, I came back after five years because since day one, the American government began to worked very hard for our release. And our family, of course, our family was really working really hard on that.
It was difficult negotiation because this is something called the hostage diplomacy that you're a normal person like we were. I was not a politician. I was a businessman.
So you were caught in the middle of geopolitical tension between two countries. In this case was Venezuela and us. But it can be US and Iran or it can be China and France, whatever. The technique is always the same. They use you as a political pawn to leverage and have concessions.
The final way we could come back is we came back to a prisoner swap October 1, 2022, with the two nephews of Maduro. Yeah.
[00:11:42] Speaker B: Wow.
We're going to take a quick commercial break. But what this shows is your imprisonment tells us something critical. This regime didn't just silence protesters, it weaponized the legal system and its prisons, which is a page right out of every dictator tyrannical regime in the histories, especially after Fidel Castro.
And what it says is that this regime will do anything to survive by taking hostages, by killing those that are against it. We're going to take a quick commercial break and then we're going to talk about the most recent of events of Venezuela. Tune right back in.
Welcome back. Jose Maduro's removal is historic. But as someone who lived under the system, Hussein knows better than most, the machine doesn't disappear just because the man is gone. And that's the big question.
Jose, from your experience, what parts of the system are hardest to dismantle after a dictator falls?
[00:12:50] Speaker C: Well, this is very important because as I mentioned in many interviews that have been doing, this is not a government. This is a system that works more like the mob.
These guys create a structure.
The way they created, they intervened all the institutions.
There was no separate of power.
They took control of all the institutions, the Supreme Court, the district attorney, the executive office, everything.
And they create a separate police regime, that is the Sebin and some parallel police called the Colectivos and the militias, plus Hamas, Hezbollah, eln, the FAR guerrilla, the Chinese, the Russian.
It was incredible the way this guy.
They create a shield to stay forever.
So it's a miracle that Trump took that decision and did what he did, taking Maduro.
[00:14:13] Speaker B: And I love how you reference it to like a mafioso type of situation, because it's true. When you have a regime of this, which Hugo started implementing the plan in the, you know, you have to. For this type of regime, it is a total takeover of the military, because the military are so. For those that, like my generation younger, like the stormtroopers, you have a control of the military. And the military is not only there to guard the country, it's merely to guard the regime against its own people, to keep the people in place. Then you have the courts. The courts are a fallacy.
They maintain those that are in the power, in power, and then they bring all these false charges so that they can continue to, to deprive the people and also input excruciating pains to the people.
And it's also control of all of the assets of the country, which would have been, in this case, petroleum.
And there's no elections. There's. I mean, we, we saw what happened in 2024 where Maduro just took the. Made up his own findings, you know, oh, I won by 52%.
But like, okay, so this is always the playbook. And it, I mean, I know we're laughing about it because it is a very serious situation in that so many people don't realize that what you went through, what your fellow Citgo 6 executives went through, is still being played out today.
I mean, if you're an American, you have a bullseye.
[00:15:54] Speaker D: Many times, let me tell you.
[00:15:56] Speaker C: I was with all the political prisoners because as I said, I stayed in the two dungeons. I had the opportunity to be with the military, political prisoner and with the civils. So I know everybody there yesterday was released. A Lieutenant Juan, Juan Guarapano. We were very close friends. He's a symbol, was released yesterday.
And the many people that are still there, they have more than 800 people still there because they did a compromise. They're going to begin to release people, but it's going very slow. But the point is that the people that were there were not normal people. They were the most clever people of Venezuela that were against the regime. They were there only because they were against the regime. So I had the opportunity to talk a lot with these people, with military and civil people.
And I believe that in the new face of Venezuela, these people are going to be key in the rebuilding of Venezuela.
[00:16:57] Speaker B: Oh, and absolutely. I mean it's, I have to say for those that like to say that the U.S. is, you know, we're, we're an autocracy. We don't have right to freedom of speech. We're so privileged that we're able to.
[00:17:10] Speaker C: American can imagine this is difficult to understand because it's something, it's so complex. That's why program like these are so important, so that people can open their eyes what can happen?
[00:17:24] Speaker B: Well, and like what you were saying, these are the people that were the loudest dissidents against the regime. They were the ones who had a voice, they had a power. I mean, even like Maria Camacho, I mean it's around my child. I mean they had a voice. And that was endangering the regime because the regime always looks at whether it's from Venezuela, Cuba, I mean you could say Iran, you could look at other countries is the same playbook. Anybody who happens to step out of line, that is and has a following starts growing that seed of unrest because that seeds is always there. It never dies. But those are the people come out and these are the people who we are going to need.
Now I have to ask you what was your reaction when you saw what happened just what, 18 days ago, that the US went in and you know.
[00:18:29] Speaker C: But he always laughed with me because.
[00:18:31] Speaker D: He saw me like I had like one month all day long looking the media to see what was going on. And he told me, dad, you're going to go crazy. You have to stop looking social media. I was really thinking when this will happen. And it happened. When I was sleeping, I received a phone call from Venezuela, A friend calling me, Jose, turn on the tv is happening. And I turn on the tv. I could not believe it. I could not believe it. Even I was expecting it. I could not believe it.
[00:19:03] Speaker B: And I think that's where even for like I have a friend of mine and she lives in the Netherlands. She still, her mother, her family are still in Venezuela.
And obviously it was the middle of the night for us. It was 2 in the morning, I think for, for me. So 1 in the morning for you?
[00:19:21] Speaker C: It was 1pm for me.
[00:19:22] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. And she was a little bit big, but she was the same thing. She was like all sudden her family started Blowing up the phone and, and saying it's happening and such. And I think to me that what impresses me the most is how focused, how clear the mission was for the military, even, you know, and it's a joint military judicial mission, but also it, it, it rang out another message. Not only did it take somebody who is a horrible dictator like Maduro, who would torture people, who, who would starve his own people just to maintain the power, kill and killed, and he was a, a murderer, and then bringing in terrorists and, and so everything about him personally that's reprehensible and then the security threat to America, but this was a sheer sign of the force of the American military in the might that in my opinion, Trump absolutely wanted to make. And it was in a way very, I mean, four hours.
I mean, I'm still trying to figure.
[00:20:38] Speaker C: Out how that four hours. But the extraction of Maduro took less than 30 minutes.
So the operation to extract you took 30 minutes. Four hours was the whole operation.
[00:20:48] Speaker B: Exactly. I mean, and to me that's just like that. That is just. It blows my mind, let's put that way, because even I was somewhat married in a military family. I mean, that is just shows you the might. But it does have strategically for us, as a US it shows the might of our ability. And also it puts on notice Russia and China, more Pakistan specifically. Hey, you may think you have good stuff, but we have better.
[00:21:16] Speaker C: I believe that that is the most important message behind, of course, the taking of Maduro, that this is a clear sign to the world because the people that don't know in Venezuela supposedly were the most advanced technology of China, Russia and Iran.
And they lose their money. It didn't work. Nothing.
They lose their money.
[00:21:47] Speaker B: So let me ask you this. How much of the system was built around Maduro? Because we still see Elcibo Rodriguez, his vp, is now the interim president with currently the approval of President Trump.
But how much of that system was built around him and has it been weakened by his.
[00:22:11] Speaker C: Well, you know, this is a regime that is. He was part of the system. But the way the mob works is the same. If they take that head of the mob, somebody will replace it. So now Delsey is replacing him because.
[00:22:24] Speaker D: She is part of it. She's not outsider, a nice lady. No, she's a criminal too.
She has been doing money, laundry.
She has been taking care of that drug deal.
So she's part of the system.
But the only thing is, in a very pragmatic way, Trump is saying, okay, we need a transition in peace. Because if you go to the story, if you go to see cases like Iraq or Libya over Afghanistan in the past, they took the head of the regime and they left and the conflict became to be a disaster.
So Trump said it very clear we didn't want that to happen to Venezuela. And that is the main reason there is oil in Venezuela. So they don't want the oil to be in the hand of a civil unrest, something like that.
[00:23:18] Speaker C: That's why this transition period is so important.
[00:23:23] Speaker B: One, I agree with you, but I think that's like a hard, jagged pill for many to follow because it's not politic, my friend.
[00:23:33] Speaker C: Israel politics.
[00:23:34] Speaker B: Yeah, well, and like look at Iran. Look what happened in this before the Ayatollah was, was put into power. I mean, was a thriving nation, women had rights and stuff. And then look at it now, I mean, and that's another ish. Maybe I'll bring you on so we could talk about that on another time. But I want to focus on Venezuela because for me, I know that it's still a point, point of celebration to see that Maduro was taken out and also in the manner in which he was taken out, because even though we still have the regime in control, whether it's Rodriguez, his military or whomever, but they also know now, so long as the US has the foot on the proverbial throat, they know we can do the same thing to them. We're going to take a quick commercial break and we're going to come back and discuss, discuss the transition to a free democratic Venezuela and what it's going to take. Tune right back in.
Welcome back.
There's a lot of pressure right now to move fast that we have to take the regime out. We need to put in a president, put in elections, announcements, promises, but firsthand you got to look at a process has to be done out. And the way that Marco Rubio and the Trump administration has set it out seems to be one that is very clear because we want to avoid chaos, we want to avoid civil unrest and we definitely want to avoid what has happened in other countries such as Iran, Afghanistan, Syria.
So I know you've seen this, Jose, about Marco Rubio outlining a clear sequence, stability first, recovery second, transition third.
So why in your opinion, is that an order that should be non negotiable, especially after what you have experienced and also your knowledge of the country?
[00:25:50] Speaker C: Well, let me tell you something.
The segue is okay, but there is something that I believe they have to be taken consideration and I believe they're beginning to See the signs because the stabilization is important.
[00:26:05] Speaker D: And we said it can go as civil unrest or civil war, whatever. So they need to have a transition.
[00:26:13] Speaker C: To stabilize the country.
But that cannot take too much time.
[00:26:18] Speaker D: Because one of the things these regimes are so clear is gaining time that survived all this year, always gaining time.
[00:26:29] Speaker C: So that time goes against what the.
[00:26:32] Speaker D: Plan of Rubio and Trump want to do.
[00:26:35] Speaker C: Then comes that growth, the returning of the American company.
[00:26:41] Speaker D: During the meeting ExxonMobiling and all these companies had with Trump, they said it very clear to him, Venezuela in this current situation with that regime is uninvestable.
And this is a reality check. So for some reason, Trump got mad because he wanted they began to work in the. But the truth is that these companies, they don't work in that short term, they work in the long term. They have shareholder. And by the way, ExxonMobil was expropriated two times, so they would be the third time if they don't do it right. So they're going to be making pushing backs to make the things right.
And making things right means changing law, changing relations and changing regime.
So there is where it comes, that stands third phase, the transition.
So maybe this will influence how long it will take or not to go to the transition. That is free election.
Because if you want to go to a real structural change, you need a change of regime.
Take out these guys and let Maria Corina Machado, that is the true leader of Venezuela, conduct the Venezuela for the future.
[00:28:06] Speaker B: And I agree, it's clear that there needs to be that stability. But it does have to be changed. Because that's one of the biggest concerns I have is this process, let's say this three phase process, if it extends out past Trump's administration and not knowing who's going to win 2028, there's no guarantee that you're going to have the backing in the force behind the backing of the United States, you know, to ensure this.
So for me, I personally think that it needs to be done within the year. I mean, and maybe that's too. I know people say sooner, I'm sure you're like, no, it needs to be even faster, but start the process going. But also it's vetting out.
I guess one of the questions I have is how do you vet out or how do you remove those people that have been empowered for these past 26 years, like the military head and such?
[00:29:07] Speaker C: Believe me. But I'm surprised how fast things are happening. For example, the US embassy was closed when our situation happened in 2018 or 2019 our are captured was who created that situation to close the embassy. They opened it one week ago the startup of the embassy. They appointed a lady today called Laura Ardu. So now we have a new ambassador in Venezuela. This lady comes from Salvador. She knows very well, you know all that Latin America she speak Spanish.
She's gonna be appointed to take care and eyes what's going in Venezuela in there in ground.
But you have here two actors that are key in this moment. One is Marco Rubio that knows very well the Venezuelan situation.
Very close friend of Maria Corina Machado because he publica said it. And now you have Maria Corina Machado that she was like an outsider and now Trump decided to include her in the transition. She's currently in Washington. She's now as of today in Washington working already.
And she's going to be pushing. She's going to be pushing. I believe this is going to happen.
I truly believe faster than we can expect.
[00:30:46] Speaker B: Well, and that's obviously my hope because I do believe the sooner the better, especially for a free valid election.
So the people which I mean Maria had 70% well, her running mate is she had 70% to 75%. Almost 80 of the people without the.
[00:31:08] Speaker C: 9 million of people that could not vote.
The people that are the diaspora could not vote.
[00:31:15] Speaker B: And so I have no doubt and that to me is going to be the most amazing thing to witness because it is. We are living history. We are watching historic times in this change.
But once that election occurs, once she is placed into the presidential palace and inaugurated, then the real work begins too. Because it's not only placing having that free election, making sure it's valid and it's done, but it's also providing the security behind it. And I think that's even more important that the United States has to commit. We are not occupied, we are not good as occupiers. Our military is not meant to occupy countries. Look at Afghanistan recent history.
But we need to make sure that we are there to save.
We have her, we have her back. She has our full support. And if anything happens, we're here to stomp anything that may occur. And to me I think that's where that would be phase four that may not have been said.
[00:32:22] Speaker C: Maria Collina has couple of years working with a transition team the plan of the rebuilding of Venezuela. I particularly know the person that had been working in the oil and gas plant. He was a former boss of me. I know his capability. I know he's a smart guy and he has some Very good idea. I know some ideas what he has for the future to come.
But everything passes for a structural change. And the structural change will not only bring the democracy, will bring back the real investment of the companies coming back to Venezuela. Maria has said it very clear, Venezuela is going to be the energy hub of the Latin America. And I truly believe it. I truly believe it.
[00:33:14] Speaker B: I believe it's going to be the energy hub, probably globally, more so because of the amount.
So obviously this isn't just putting a new and it's not just a rebrand. I think that's what most people are maybe a little cautious about because we do have Del Siva Rodriguez in place.
This is a woman, as you stated, that her hands are just as dirty.
She's probably, you know, she's more than elbow deep in, in, in this regime that was, in its corruption.
And it's, it's, it's, you know, I would say criminal actions and such, and maybe one day our, our international courts will try them on it, but we.
[00:34:01] Speaker C: Have to maybe, maybe in 50 years.
[00:34:04] Speaker D: They're pretty slow.
[00:34:05] Speaker B: Yeah, probably, I mean, as the way it is, I mean, it probably will. But one of the things too is that I look at is in this first phase, it has to be more than just a rebrand. It can't be.
Oh, because people listen to Trump and I always tell people it's not what he says, it's what's the reaction afterwards. Like he was giving some praise to Del Rodriguez, saying, oh, yeah, she's a fine person or, you know, she's brilliant. I think that's where there's, he was.
[00:34:33] Speaker C: Saying that he was having a fine talk with Maduro and couple of days after he took him well again.
[00:34:41] Speaker B: I mean, I, he was dancing, you know.
[00:34:43] Speaker C: He was dancing.
[00:34:45] Speaker B: Yeah. I mean, it's like, I keep telling people, I'm like, it's not what he says, it's what happens after he says something.
And so I think that's really where we're at, is this first phase. It needs to be dealt with. And my hope is it's dealt with quickly. It's not just a rebranding of a corrupt regime into, oh, look, we have a newer version of the same.
And I guess what for me, my hope is, and I think this is where my heart really just filled with joy is when I saw the celebrations, because you hear a lot of the talking heads, you hear a lot of politicians and international leaders decrying what happened with Maduro and how we handled it. But when you see the people on the streets, celebrating. I mean, what was that like for you?
[00:35:38] Speaker C: Well, let me say something to those politics and the people that are saying that first of all, this was not a president, this was a criminal, a narcotrafficant, a terrorist that stole election.
He was an illegitimate office.
Second, he has kidnapped a country. He had killed people, he had put millions of people in suffering. He's a murderer. So they were not invading a country. They were taking a criminal. And that's what they did, Period.
[00:36:18] Speaker B: I love that. And that was perfect because that's the truth. He was a criminal and he is a criminal. And in the most salacious, horrific ways in what he does. And when the truth starts coming out, I think that's when people will be more grateful. We're going to take a quick commercial break and then we'll come back for more. And in our last segment with Jose, we're going to talk about the hope, accountability and future for Venezuela. Tune right back in.
Welcome back. For those of you just joining on this last segment, I have been joined in having the most amazing conversation with Jose Pereira, former president of Citgo and one of the Citgo six political prisoners and hostages of the Maduro regime.
And now, Jose, I want to talk with you about hope.
Hope for this country, hope for its future, and especially with what all you have survived, everything that you have gone through and still undergoing, because I know that you're still dealing with the traumatic experiences of your five years as a hostage.
What can you tell your fellow Venezuelans of this hope that you see on the horizon?
[00:37:43] Speaker C: Well, for me, hope is everything because I could survive because of the hope.
[00:37:48] Speaker D: I am here today because I never lose the hope.
[00:37:52] Speaker C: And my motto is never give up.
[00:37:55] Speaker D: So for me, hope is everything. I'm gonna say something to the Venezuelan people that are hearing this, or maybe Americans that are hearing this.
This is something that started and is irreversible. This is something that is happening. It is gonna finish with the democracy of my country.
What is gonna happen?
Venezuela has the assets, has the oil, has the coal tank, has the gold, has strange minerals, has all that is needed in ground.
[00:38:37] Speaker C: The people that are not there. There are those 9 million people that flew the country, are very well trained.
[00:38:45] Speaker D: They're all over is the biggest diaspora of the modern world.
[00:38:50] Speaker C: But the people will return.
[00:38:53] Speaker D: When the companies come back to invest.
[00:38:55] Speaker C: In Venezuela, they're going to come back and they're going to come back now.
[00:38:59] Speaker D: Better, well equipped because now they're very well trained and they know how it's Losing their country. So they were working hard for their country.
[00:39:10] Speaker C: And the third thing is going to be the financing.
[00:39:14] Speaker D: When I was in my captivity, I was talking along with these people and I was always saying, oh, when we had to rebuild Venezuela, we had to go to.
[00:39:26] Speaker C: The fund, the World bank.
[00:39:28] Speaker D: Et cetera, so to ask for loans. No, we're not going to need loans.
[00:39:33] Speaker C: The American companies are going to bring the money. So what's going to happen to Venezuela?
[00:39:38] Speaker D: Venezuela is going to be the Dubai of the Americas.
So be ready, my friends, everybody to go invest in Venezuela and go back and know the beautiful beaches of the world, the most wonderful people of the world, and rebuilding the country that has to be rebuilded from scratch.
[00:39:59] Speaker C: It's going to take time, but it's going to happen.
[00:40:04] Speaker B: And you said it so eloquently.
And here's my thing is so with everything you survived, which is still unimaginable, and you believe in accountability, not revenge. So how would you keep our government, the US Government accountable and also the Venezuelan when it does become that, how do we maintain that accountability to ensure that democracy is regained and that Venezuela does become the Dubai of the Western Hemisphere?
[00:40:38] Speaker C: Well, as I said, we have Marco Rubio is a key player in all these and he's acting very closely. Okay. And we have Maria Corina Machado that she's today in Washington.
She didn't leave Washington. She's working closely with a lot of people and you will be hearing news in the following days how she's going to be getting more and more involved in all these transitions and that that will inevitable head to elections. It will take, I don't know, months, I don't know, but it's going to happen. It's going to happen.
[00:41:16] Speaker B: Well, and that's always, you know, I think that is what's amazing is, is that we do see in the very foreseeable future that this is now changing and you're start and even in this moment, things are already in motion.
And one of the things what I love is that Maria, who already has that connection with Marco, but that those two together, because this is something that has not been unknown. Even when Marco was a senator, he wanted to make change in Venezuela. This was one of his goals. I mean there was Cuba, but Cuba is a little bit of a different anomaly because.
Yeah, well, and it's also because how long it's already been in that tar pit of that regime.
But this was something Rubio has always wanted to do since the first moment he was elected as a junior senator.
So it is inspiring to see this and to me, who I'm a woman that I love to celebrate, you know, the accomplishments of other women and to see that as, you know, somebody to look up to. And to see Maria, with all that she has endured, that she didn't give up, I mean, she could have easily said, okay, I'm out, I'm in Sweden, I got the Nobel Peace Price.
I don't know, it's kind of nice not having death threats and having to worry about being killed or having my face broken in. No, she has this passion and this drive in this animal to say, you know what? It does not matter what happens to me. This is for the people. And I think that's where the change is and that is where the true hope is. And that's why I'm excited for when we do get to witness that election where she is voted in as president, because she truly is the embodiment of that free spirit.
At least how I say something else.
[00:43:18] Speaker C: Alina. The people that doesn't know her, Maria Corina, come from one of the wealthiest families of Venezuela. So she's not somebody that pop up like Chavez. That was nobody. No, she comes from a family, their tie goes all the way to Simon Bolivar.
So it's a very, very well known, established family. And she decided to go to politics not to make money.
She decided because she truly believes in democracy, in freedom, in capitalism as the wealth of a country.
So she has been fighting this for more than 20 years.
She has been very consistent with her message and now is her time.
[00:44:09] Speaker B: Absolutely. And I think that's what it is.
And for anyone who wants to get motivation or to see someone who actually embodies that persistent drive in achieving a goal, and this is a goal that's bigger than themselves. This is it. It is in Maria. But also, you know, one of the things that you have to wonder is then, okay, so we, we joke that the international courts, maybe 50 years from now, maybe they'll get around someday, maybe someday.
[00:44:44] Speaker C: But my case is in the, in international court.
Maybe my grandson will have something.
[00:44:51] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, but you know, you have to look at, I think that's one of the first things too is, is that the court system in Venezuela has to need a major reform.
It needs a complete.
[00:45:07] Speaker C: The information that I have is that the elections are going to be national election. They're going to remove all the institutions, so all the institutions are going to go under election. So when they do the election for the presidency, they will do the election for the governors Mayors, the court, everything, everything, everything's going to be removed.
[00:45:34] Speaker B: See, and that I think, and that's good. And I didn't even think about, like, it's just going to be a whole white, in a way, whitewashing.
[00:45:42] Speaker C: It's going to be a general election.
[00:45:45] Speaker B: Well, it's what is needed. And you're absolutely right, that is absolutely needed. Because in order for the justices for justice to be held for those that create, that caused all of these abuses, forget the, the international court. And for those of you, sorry, I'm very much in my Spanglish mode right now. Forget international court. For the Venezuelan people. They deserve justice. They deserve to see a court system, a judicial system that is fair and just and equitable, proceed with the prosecution of those that have persecuted the thousands in millions.
[00:46:21] Speaker C: You know, the leadership of Marina is key in this moment because let me tell you something, that the transitions are never perfect. Sometimes you have to swallow and accept things that maybe you will not do in a normal way, but that's what the transition does. For example, when you went to the Upper Hait in South Africa, Nelson Mandela had to do some concessions, you know, and he had to do this in a way to reconcile the country.
That's something similar, I believe, that Maria has to do. So nobody is going to be having everything in place. Nothing will be perfect.
But, you know, it's part of the transition.
[00:47:05] Speaker B: Yeah, it's a start. But I do hope that one day the Venice for the, for the people of Venezuela, that they do see some type accountability and justice and again, a judicial system that is in the right, not what they have been under for the past 26 years. I'll say thank you so much for coming on this show.
Your insights are so valuable. You're.
The experiences that you've had and, and what you've endured is unimaginable to me. And I want to thank you again for sharing your story, but also your insight into how we are on the precipice. This is the tipping point, as they would say, for Venezuela. And it's also a tipping point for, I truly believe, the large domino going and making change and for the good, for all of the Americas and for my viewers. Thank you, Jose. For my viewers, Venezuela has a moment it's never had before in 26 years.
And this is the moment for such a time as this, Venezuela has the opportunity for true freedom, for regaining its democracy, to have a leader that is worthy of her, of the people.
And these are the moments that we learn from the truth.
Jose Pereira lit that truth in the confines of a torturous prison cells and came out still believing in freedom. If anything, we should take him as an example of what hope, resilience, willpower and belief in something more than himself can achieve. I am Alina Gonzalez Dockery, and this is we the people.
And we'll keep telling the truth together. Good night.
